Episode 54 – Manage People Effectively Through Indirect Communication

Introduction    00:00:03    Marketing, explosive growth, and revolutionary secrets that can catapult your business to new heights. You’re now listening to The Underground Marketer Podcast with your host Tudor Dumitrescu, the one podcast devoted to showing new businesses how to market themselves for high growth.  

Tudor Dumitrescu     00:00:25    Welcome to the underground marketer. This is the place where we deliver the real truth about marketing and explore big ideas that can help new businesses thrive and grow into big ones. I’m your host Tudor. And today we’re going to talk about managing people and more specifically, how you need to approach it, why it’s important and what you should be careful with when you are actually managing people. I will start by saying that everybody has their own management style, and it’s very important that you actually find your own. So, um, there are some general guidelines that are very useful to follow, and there is such a thing as knowledge in management. But apart from that, you also have to find your own style. And I will preface this by saying that I know people with very, very different styles and both of them are effective managers when it comes to dealing with people.  

Tudor Dumitrescu     00:01:20    I know people for example, who are very aggressive and domineering when dealing with other people. And I know people who are the opposite of that, they’re very soft and very soft spoken, and they still get results out of people, right? The difference though, really comes from their character and their personality. And that’s why I say that you have to have a style that actually works for you, because if you just try to follow some general rules and they’re in conflict with your personality, you’re not going to come over as authentic and real, right? So if my personality, for example, is to be tough and to tell people, tell it’s straight to people, then that’s how I I’m going to act, right? Because that’s where I can be most effective now going to the rest of the discussion. So I’ve learned managing people. I’ve actually been forced to learn managing people, right?  

Tudor Dumitrescu     00:02:17    It’s not something that I was interested in. It’s not something that I wanted to do, but as I scale my agency and as through my agency, you know, there was a point that I, for example, when I was, um, working with over 18 people, right in different capacities, and I had to learn to manage people, right? Because then, then without learning that there is no way that you can actually grow your above a certain level, right? Because there’s only so much work that you can do by yourself, right? So you still need to rely on other people. And management is really the art and really the science. That’s going to show you how you can most effectively rely on other people, right. And how you can actually get results from other people. And that’s very important to realize, right? So management is really about getting results from other people, getting people to do what you ask them to do the way you want it to be done, right?  

Tudor Dumitrescu     00:03:18    Or whatever other way, maybe the best way that it can be done. The basic principles of management come from human nature, right? So you have to understand human beings. You have to understand what human beings value and what’s important to them being, for example, one of the, the most powerful desires that people have and that you have to use with, and you’re managing people is to understand that people want to be proud of their work. And if you can use this desire of pride that people get from their work, you can, for example, make them enjoy working a lot more for you, and also be a lot more willing to take on challenging tasks. You, if somebody, for example, doesn’t believe in themselves and doesn’t believe that doing a certain thing is possible, then you are actually going to struggle to get them to do something that’s challenging.  

Tudor Dumitrescu     00:04:12    And it’s going to be very difficult for you. Even if you assign the task to them, you’re going to notice that they start procrastinating. They start doing this and that because deep down inside, they don’t feel that it’s possible for them, or they’re too afraid of what’s going to happen if they fail. So when you’re managing people, you have to be aware of all those things. And not just of what they say. A lot of people, they make the mistake of saying, I ask, asked Joe, if he can do it, and if he’s happy to do it. And he said, oh yeah, it’s not gonna be a problem. And then the work wasn’t done and Joe was struggling to really give explanations of why. Right? So the mistake of that manager and of that person is assuming that what comes out of people’s mouth is the truth, right?  

Tudor Dumitrescu     00:05:01    And that’s often not the case. And that’s why you have to pay attention to the tonality of their voice when they’re speaking and to their body language. And really what you’re looking for when you’re paying attention is congruence between what they’re saying, the tone they’re using and the body language that they are using. If those three things are aligned, then you can know that they truly are confident. And that’s how they’re actually feeling. But if they say one thing, right, but then their body language says the opposite or their tonality says the opposite, then it’s a much higher likelihood that they don’t actually mean what they say. It’s actually a very interesting thing from a psychology standpoint, right? Because we don’t communicate just through what we say. And it’s actually impossible for you, for example, to feel a lack of confidence and not display this in some way, shape or form to the outside world.  

Tudor Dumitrescu     00:06:04    And I mean, for example, if you look at something like boxing, boxers know this, and very often, it’s just a flicker of a second before a match. Then one of the boxers sees a glimer of fear in the other’s eyes or in, in the way the other moves. And that’s more than enough to change the tides of the fight and basically control the outcome of the fight. The, these body language signals, it’s impossible to control all of them, which means that it’s impossible. For example, for you to feel your discomfort or fear or anything else and not show it in some way, maybe you show it in a way that’s not picked up by other people, because maybe they don’t know how to pay attention to your body language or whatever it is, right. It doesn’t really matter. But the point is that it’s being communicated.  

Tudor Dumitrescu     00:06:56    So when you are managing people, you have to be aware of the full communication that actually goes on between you and them. You also have to be aware of course, of your own communication. So if you feel afraid, if you feel like they won’t succeed, when you give them a task, then that’s going to show, right. They’re going to pick up even unconsciously. They’re going to pick up a, on your lack of faith in them, and they’re likely going to fail, right? So it’s both self awareness and awareness of the other person in his totality. That really makes a difference. And that’s going to make you a much better manager of people. And of course, then after this, we have what we’ve mentioned, which is a psychological understanding of what really drives people. A few of the things that really drive people, everybody wants to be important.  

Tudor Dumitrescu     00:07:47    Everybody wants to feel needed. Everybody wants to have hope in a future. And in certain goals, everybody wants to be appreciated or admired people don’t to want to feel vulnerable. Nobody wants to feel vulnerable. These are pretty much common and unspoken needs, right? Nobody’s going to come and tell you, oh, I don’t want to feel vulnerable. Nobody. Even if that’s the truth, nobody’s going to tell you those needs. Nobody’s going to come up to you and say, oh, I want to feel admired boss. That’s never going to happen. Right? So you have to figure out those needs indirectly and you have to figure out what drives people indirectly. And that’s how you actually become an effective manager. And of course you have to be careful with this, right? Because what can happen very often is that if you show that you understand people on a deep level and you show this frequently and to their face, so to speak, right?  

Tudor Dumitrescu     00:08:48    So managing doesn’t mean that you tell them to their face, oh, I know that you’re doing this because you feel afraid or whatnot. That’s not management. That’s actually bad management. Most of the time, at least so good management is knowing what drives people and using that to change their behavior. Good management is not telling them that you are aware of what drives them, because that’s likely to make them afraid of you. Now they’re on their guard. And when they’re around you, and they think that you understand their hidden motivations and they’re that more driven to hide them and to hide them from you and to protect themselves really. So they go into fight or flight mode, right? And their body has a stress reaction. When that happens, their cognitive mind, you know, their rational mind is turned off or at least it’s turned off for most people.  

Tudor Dumitrescu     00:09:44    There are some people like I’m one of right. And I’ve trained myself. Even if I feel fear, I will feel fear. And my rational mind will stay active. But most people they’re not like this. When they feel fear, the rational mind goes down in the trash can. And then they can’t think, and they, they, they just react when you’re managing people. If they get into that state, then they’re not gonna trust you. And they’re not going to be cooperative. In other words with you and you don’t want, when you manage somebody, you don’t want that person to be in a relationship with you. That’s the last thing you want, right? So you want to be working together with them and you want to get results that are good for both of you. You don’t want to start a combative relationship. That’s likely going to be good for neither of you.  

Tudor Dumitrescu     00:10:33    And it’s going to lead to further problems down the road. It’s very important that you use your knowledge of people and their indirect body language and so on to manage them, meaning to guide them towards the, the right kind of behavior. That’s going to bring out the best in themselves and going to get results. Of course, without telling them outright that this is what I’m actually doing. I I’m using your fear to actually get you to overcome it or whatever it is that you’re doing. Right. Don’t tell it to them outright. So, um, with managing people, I really learn the value of what’s known as basically indirect communication, right? So we have direct communication when I tell you out, right, you have to do X, Y, Z, and we have indirect communication where I don’t tell you outright that you have to do X, Y, Z, but that’s sort of assumed, or that sort of presupposed a great way to do this.  

Tudor Dumitrescu     00:11:32    For example, is by asking a question. So, you know, instead of telling somebody, I know that you can solve this issue, go ahead and figure it out on your own. You can ask them a question. You can ask them. So how could we figure this out? How could we solve this? And then obviously asking them that question, presupposes, that you believe that they can provide you with a solution, right? Because if you didn’t believe you, wouldn’t be asking that question. So this is indirect communication. So to manage people and to be a good manager of people, you have to become great at being an indirect communicator. And instead of saying things straight saying them more in a round the about way where they’re assumed to be the case from the GetGo, by the person. And I mean, this has been as really powerful for me in helping me manage people.  

Tudor Dumitrescu     00:12:23    So we’ve discussed a bit about the techniques when it comes to managing people and the things that you need to learn and to keep in mind, we’ve discussed about discovering your own style for it. Now let’s talk a little bit about the value of managing people. So as your business grows, you’re going to have to interact with a lot more people like it or not, right? So even if you’re an introvert, even if this doesn’t come naturally to you, you’re still going to have to do it. And it’s going to be very important, your success, because the bigger your business becomes, the more important your management skills become, right? So when you’re first starting out and you are a new entrepreneur and you’re starting out a business and it’s just you and you are doing all the work and everything relies on you, right? So management skills there pretty much not important, right?  

Tudor Dumitrescu     00:13:14    They’re not important. They don’t make a big difference. Instead when you are an entrepreneur and you’re first starting out, what really matters is that you understand your customer, you have sales skills and you’re focused on providing as much value as possible to your target audience. These three things matter the most, and these are entrepreneurial skills, right? They’re not management skills, but as your company grows, managing people becomes more and more important. That’s why some people like, for example, bill gates or the Google guys, right? They outsourced the management of their companies. Like they stopped being. At some point they stopped being CEO of the company. And they brought in a proper real manager who understands what actually is involved in managing people and how to do it Mo most effectively as your company grows, management is going to become more and more important to the success of that company, to the point where it’s actually going to be the most important factor in the success of your company.  

Tudor Dumitrescu     00:14:13    So if you look at a big company like general electric management for general electric is the single most important activity that the company does. And it’s solely responsible for the success of the company. And if you think about it, not everybody is a good manager. If you are a guy who you tried it, and you’re not a good manager, then the best thing you can do is actually bring somebody on into the business is even if you have to give them shares or whatever, who actually is a great manager and who can take you, help you take the company to that next level. So managing is supremely important, the bigger your business becomes. So you have to both train for it. And if not, you have to hire people who are good managers and who are going to be effective at helping you take the company to the next level.  

Tudor Dumitrescu     00:15:01    Now you can look at the differences between people like, for example, you have people like the Google guys who are great entrepreneurs, and then you have people like, what’s his name? Jack Welch, for example, from, uh, GE, right? He was a great manager. I dunno how he was as an entrepreneur word because he never started a business, but he was a great manager of people. And his book winning actually is quite a valuable resource when it comes to dealing with people. And when it comes to managing people, I recommend that one managing can also help you right from the start, if you’re actually starting a business that requires other people from the get go, and there are some businesses which are like this, you know, I mean, if you’re going to start a retail store, for example, or if you’re going to start a restaurant, you’re not gonna be the only person working in the restaurant, right.  

Tudor Dumitrescu     00:15:51    Management skills are going to be important there from the get go that’s about it. So that’s pretty much what I wanted to cover. I think we’ve covered a lot of ground. We’ve covered topics about what’s important to manage people, what you need to know in order to be successful at it techniques for doing it and principles that you have to keep in mind the stuff about direct and indirect communication. And of course the actual value and importance of management, which actually increases as your company grows. So we’ve covered a lot of ground. I hope that you guys got a ton of value out of this and as usual stay tuned for the next episode. And until next time, remember to keep growing the, our business and provide massive value to the world. You are the reason why we’re all growing richer. Our freedoms are expanding and we’re all living in greater prosperity. Thank you.